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So whose Bombay is it anyway?

This is a discussion on So whose Bombay is it anyway? within the Chit Chat forums, part of the The Lounge category; But we need some balance also....you dont want suck out a place bone dry...right?? May be you are right. But ...

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  #51 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

But we need some balance also....you dont want suck out a place bone dry...right??
May be you are right. But using force is no solution. Increase local taxes, increase the cost of living of mumbai. Few people will leave the city. Thats legitimate way of doing. But by beating innocent people on streets is just gross.
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  #52 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

May be you are right. But using force is no solution. Increase local taxes, increase the cost of living of mumbai. Few people will leave the city. Thats legitimate way of doing. But by beating innocent people on streets is just gross.
I know violence isnt the right way to do it...But please spare us from the increase in taxes...we already have higher taxes than most places
Increase the cost of living in Mumbai?? Its already the highest in the country
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  #53 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Look, there is an easy way to prevent immigration. STOP ALLOWING NEW SLUMS TO COME UP. That is all it takes. But none of the politicians have the guts to do that. Let alone the MNS or Shiv Sena. Hell, they rule in some of those places.
When the people from UP and Bihar come in, where do you think they find a house? If you prevent these encroachments, the people will stop coming in.

And a quick little note for all the people who seem to support anti-immigration measures. Remember two things:
1. Locals probably wouldn't do many of the menial jobs.
2. A lot of Mumbai's success is because it is the city of dreams. Everyone wants to come there, setup there. Of late a lot of companies have left mumbai, and such agitations will only increase that outflow. That will be really bad for the city.

You need to balance these two points with the fact that the city is near breaking.

As for North vs South, it is interesting how the definition of North keeps on changing. Back when the Shiv Sena was young, it targeted South Indians in Bombay (it was Bombay back then). Not North Indians. They must have considered themselves North Indian then I guess...

My professor from Bengal once claimed he was from south India Apparently living in the US for 30 years has completely confused him.

Note also that a lot of what the Marathi Manus people ask for is unfair and dangerous for Maharashtrians. The Shiv Sena once asked that 30% of Air India intake be people from Maharashtra. Now, Air India is HQ'd in Mumbai, and most of its hiring is done there. But it is an INDIAN enterprise (PSU at that). If we go that way, then IAS (HQ'd in Delhi) would have no Maharashtrian officers.... that would be bad.

BTW, I've lived in Maharashtra for the larger portion of my life (was born in Mumbai), though I never did learn the language. I can understand it to some extent, but can't verbalize it myself.

Last edited by KingKrool; 13 Feb 08 at 11:44 AM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Originally Posted by KingKrool View Post
Look, there is an easy way to prevent immigration. STOP ALLOWING NEW SLUMS TO COME UP. That is all it takes. But none of the politicians have the guts to do that. Let alone the MNS or Shiv Sena. Hell, they rule in some of those places.
When the people from UP and Bihar come in, where do you think they find a house? If you prevent these encroachments, the people will stop coming in.

And a quick little note for all the people who seem to support anti-immigration measures. Remember two things:
1. Locals probably wouldn't do many of the menial jobs.
2. A lot of Mumbai's success is because it is the city of dreams. Everyone wants to come there, setup there. Of late a lot of companies have left mumbai, and such agitations will only increase that outflow. That will be really bad for the city.

You need to balance these two points with the fact that the city is near breaking.

As for North vs South, it is interesting how the definition of North keeps on changing. Back when the Shiv Sena was young, it targeted South Indians in Bombay (it was Bombay back then). Not North Indians. They must have considered themselves North Indian then I guess...

My professor from Bengal once claimed he was from south India Apparently living in the US for 30 years has completely confused him.

Note also that a lot of what the Marathi Manus people ask for is unfair and dangerous for Maharashtrians. The Shiv Sena once asked that 30% of Air India intake be people from Maharashtra. Now, Air India is HQ'd in Mumbai, and most of its hiring is done there. But it is an INDIAN enterprise (PSU at that). If we go that way, then IAS (HQ'd in Delhi) would have no Maharashtrian officers.... that would be bad.

BTW, I've lived in Maharashtra for the larger portion of my life (was born in Mumbai), though I never did learn the language. I can understand it to some extent, but can't verbalize it myself.
Thats similar to what i said regarding the mushrooming of slums in Mumbai on TE...

As for Maharashtra we've never considered being south or north indians we've always been from the western part of the country....

Some demands of Shiv-Sena have been baseless but most of them find flavour with the locals....reserving jobs in Air India might be an outrageous idea but reserving jobs in malls etc definately isnt....

Also most ppl arent against anyone staying/wanting to stay here....the problem arises when the immigrants cause certain problems/imbalance which is usually due to their ignorance....this is a fact and there is no denying it....
i have spent my life between Nasik n Mumbai and i have seen some of the changes that have happened and a lot of blame needs also needs to be taken by the local govt. too

For example Nasik hardly had any shantis/slums about 6-8 yrs back but now there are a few mushrooming now and most ppl there are north indians....
They live in the worst ways possible and it is a real problem for ppl living around those areas....
Some might say provide them with toilets n water etc but thats just regularing those slums and asking for more to come up....And if these ppl arent provided with toilets n water n etc they will continue to live in a filthy way!!!

What are locals supposed to do then??

Proabaly the Central Govt shld provide all cities with a Migrant Welfare Fund

And someone who has been staying in a particular region for a considerable amount of time and not choosing to learn the local language is plain ignorance....
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  #55 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

They live in the worst ways possible and it is a real problem for ppl living around those areas....
Some might say provide them with toilets n water etc but thats just regularing those slums and asking for more to come up....And if these ppl arent provided with toilets n water n etc they will continue to live in a filthy way!!!
Do you feel they love to live in such a way? When they dont even get a glass of clean water or 1 hour of electricity in a day, what they get in cities is "satisfying" experience for them. Will you prefer to kill them (yes i use the word kill since they dont have anything to eat at their home villages) or will you tolerate hardship. Choice is yours. Basically its about sharing of gains from development of cities. If you choose to stay in cities you have to accept the burdens that come in package. Mumbai is not built ONLY by work of particular section of society. Its hard work of many incl n.indians. If someone feels they cannot take the pressures of city life but still wants to enjoy the amenities, then its as good as asking for freebies.
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  #56 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Originally Posted by Wraith View Post

There a certain problems which are true and thats why most Maharashtrians are supporting Raj Thackery who has brought up an issue which is genuine...
And...u think he is genuinely doing all this for the welfare of the marathi maanus and marathi asmita?? ?? If u think so, then u are grossly mistaken, my friend..


Originally Posted by Wraith View Post

Proabaly the Central Govt shld provide all cities with a Migrant Welfare Fund
Well, i am a neutral speaker here, but the word 'Migrant' sounds so terse, when we all belong to the same country. We are all indians. How did one become a migrant in his own country? When the constitution has given every indian the right to work and settle anywhr in this country, just when did we all become migrants in our own country?? To think of it, my dad was a government servant and he retired as a chief engineer in Indian railways. And since my childhood, i've been to almost every nook n corner of this country since he had a transferable job. So does tht mean, i was a migrant in each of the city/town i lived in?? Tht i was not welcome thr?? If any1 feels so, then he probably needs a few lessons in the rights of a citizen granted by the constitution of this country.
A government servant can and has the right to travel anywhr in the country as decided by the central government of this country. It'll be a criminal offense if he is disallowed to offer his service. So, if a UP-ite serving in a government organization has been posted in Mumbai, does he become a migrant?? To this u may say tht the rules for migrants apply to the lowest class of workers and not a government servants. Well, borther, we cannot have different set of rules for different ppl...thts against the very constitution of this country.
Seriously though, i agree tht this thing had been brewing up for many years and has only come out in open now..but if it is so, then its a sad day for this country. I wonder how long will this country hold on like this if this thing spreads on to other states. Already, we are tackling the issues with KAshmir and the north east which want to be separated from india thanks to the militants and naxalites, then there are others who want to divide the country further into smaller states. And now even cities will be divided on the lines of caste, creed and communities.
Great progress we have made after 60 years of independence. Keep it up, guys.
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  #57 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Is the Discussion still on ????
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  #58 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Do you feel they love to live in such a way? When they dont even get a glass of clean water or 1 hour of electricity in a day, what they get in cities is "satisfying" experience for them. Will you prefer to kill them (yes i use the word kill since they dont have anything to eat at their home villages) or will you tolerate hardship. Choice is yours. Basically its about sharing of gains from development of cities. If you choose to stay in cities you have to accept the burdens that come in package. Mumbai is not built ONLY by work of particular section of society. Its hard work of many incl n.indians. If someone feels they cannot take the pressures of city life but still wants to enjoy the amenities, then its as good as asking for freebies.
No one deserves to stay in the conditions ppl in the slums have to stay in!!!
But they have to and whose fault is that they dont have education , basic sanitation in their own states thats they have to travel to far off places in search of a 'good life' which really isnt that good!!
Even when they come to the cities they can barely makes ends meet....most of their kids dont go to school.....they live in places which dont have basic sanitation....
And if you want the Govt of Maharashtra to provide for it all isnt it asking too much from them when they are barely able to provide for ppl who have been staying here since generations!
The govt does provide free primary education but how many of these ppl avail it?? And yes the free education is in Marathi Medium schools.....
Slums that come up in the cities often indulge in theft of electrity....water.....
How can a city handle all the added demands especially when people arent paying for the use of those resources??? Doesnt it lead to the reduced quality of living of the taxpayers??

Wont it be better if their home states developed infrastructure?? Shouldnt there be even developemnt throught the country?? Shldnt ppl in all states have an equal quality of life?? Why do ppl turn a blind eye to this??

Well, i am a neutral speaker here, but the word 'Migrant' sounds so terse, when we all belong to the same country. We are all indians. How did one become a migrant in his own country? When the constitution has given every indian the right to work and settle anywhr in this country, just when did we all become migrants in our own country?? To think of it, my dad was a government servant and he retired as a chief engineer in Indian railways. And since my childhood, i've been to almost every nook n corner of this country since he had a transferable job. So does tht mean, i was a migrant in each of the city/town i lived in?? Tht i was not welcome thr?? If any1 feels so, then he probably needs a few lessons in the rights of a citizen granted by the constitution of this country.
A government servant can and has the right to travel anywhr in the country as decided by the central government of this country. It'll be a criminal offense if he is disallowed to offer his service. So, if a UP-ite serving in a government organization has been posted in Mumbai, does he become a migrant?? To this u may say tht the rules for migrants apply to the lowest class of workers and not a government servants. Well, borther, we cannot have different set of rules for different ppl...thts against the very constitution of this country.
Seriously though, i agree tht this thing had been brewing up for many years and has only come out in open now..but if it is so, then its a sad day for this country. I wonder how long will this country hold on like this if this thing spreads on to other states. Already, we are tackling the issues with KAshmir and the north east which want to be separated from india thanks to the militants and naxalites, then there are others who want to divide the country further into smaller states. And now even cities will be divided on the lines of caste, creed and communities.
Great progress we have made after 60 years of independence. Keep it up, guys
Please check the meaning of the word migrant here...

AskOxford: migrant

migrant - definition of migrant by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

So using the word 'migrant' in the Migrant Welfare Fund is definately correct...

A person is definately free to travel to any part of the country but that person cant become a burden on the resources!! You cant move to a part of the country and then not respect the local traditions and customs!!

Majority of the taxi drivers in Mumbai are north indians....so many of them dont have a proper license...so many are uneducated and dont give a damm about traffic rules?? Have you come across a taxi in Mumbai which has its turn indicators working or the driver using them it they work? The taxis are in pathetic conditions!
And then you get to hear from the taxi drivers about the many hardships they have to face....they came here for a better life but are barely able to make ends meet and then afford to send some money back home....how they barely earn enuff to feed themselves lest have proper maintainence of their taxis!! Most tyres on these taxis dont have a proper tread....they opposed the move to make the taxis run on CNG saying they couldnt bare the cost!!
So everything is a whim n fancy of these taxi drivers and we continue to suffer traveling in the pathetic taxis...
I mean cmon this rubbish as no one invited these ppl to become taxi drivers here....these ppl opposed the state govts idea to bring in new taxi fleets and even damaged some new taxis and threathened their own when they want to drive the new taxis!!! Now what sort of rubbish is this??
So ppl in Mumbai shld continue to travel in those horribble non maintained taxis?? Dont we deserve better???

This just shows one of the problems.....


Also you have to be in the situation to actually have a feel of it!! You just cant keep talking about idealitic values without being in the middle of it....
We dont want our state to become similar to UP or Bihar...you'd realise when you see your way of life being threatened.....
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  #59 (permalink)  
 Old 13 Feb 08, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: So whose Bombay is it anyway?

Originally Posted by Wraith